Gentle readers, did you too feel that Episode 4 contained just too much action to process? We share your sentiments. Join us as we plunge into “the Spoils of War.”
Brush the ashes away and regain your equilibrium with three fans with different perspectives: Rosalyn Claret, who has read the books she “forgets” how many times; Laura Fletcher, a casual fan of the television and book series; and Cheryl Collins, who does not read.
Join the conversation in comments!
Laura
We know the gold from the Reach ended up in King’s Landing, so Cersei did technically get “the spoils of war,” but she quite possibly lost everything else.
Cheryl
Just as with Bronn’s bag of gold that spilled on the ground, all that hard work to get the grain from Highgarden was incinerated.
Rosalyn
They set up its destruction with good old grumpy Randyll Tarly saying that the line was too spread out and vulnerable.
Cheryl
He was right.
Roz
Tarly seems to be chafing under Jaime’s leadership. Meanwhile, his son Dickon confessed that he felt uncomfortable going against his former liege lord. The Tarlys had been loyal to Highgarden for his entire life.
Cheryl
Dickon came off well. I liked him. I remember the last time we met him, at dinner with Sam: he wasn’t the asshole his father was.
I wonder how they are going to bring Dickon further into the show, because they wouldn’t spend precious minutes on him unless he will be important in some way.
Roz
I started to pay attention to Dickon in the last episode because of the way Jaime was looking at him. I kept thinking that Jaime was seeing this glimpse of his former self. This man who is young and strong and whole, the favored child of the family, looming over him. Jaime is looking much more grey than golden these days, and we saw it in this battle: he was fumbling with his sword, he had to tell Bronn that he couldn’t operate Qyburn’s weapon with one hand, and then there was his last left-handed charge at the end.
I think Jaime still has this fathering instinct. He really would have liked to teach a kid, to talk about a son’s first battle, etc.
Laura
A son who wasn’t Joffrey. Like, a real human child.
Cheryl
Someone to pass that information on to. He’s had a lifetime of learning. I felt like Dickon was someone he could bond with, a mirror to his younger self. Jaime could talk to him about how “glory” is all bullshit— that you have to act honorably in battle, but it all smells like shit.
Laura
Jaime had that burst of energy when he charges at Daenerys. I like the interpretation of him saying “that’s who I used to be” plus “I don’t believe in all that stuff any more.”
Jaime seems unable to stop being noble, and BOY HOWDY did Dany clearly make him flash back to the Mad King – her father. If he were a comic book character, his thought bubble would have been, “I have to stop her!” He’s no Clark Kent or Superman, but that goes to show what a fucked-up universe GoT operates in.
Maybe it was also an attempt to reclaim his youth? His former station? His leadership? But it was a stupid move.
Cheryl
Was it stupid? Wouldn’t you have to try to kill the enemy queen if she was incapacitated or in a weakened position?
Laura
It’s not entirely stupid. He probably knew full well he wasn’t quite fast enough and good enough to pull it off, but he’d try it anyway. If it were the old Jaime, Daenerys would be toast, and that would be the end of Game of Thrones.
Cheryl
It reminds me of Jon standing up against that charging army in the Battle of the Bastards, with his sword raised high as the whole army charges at him, and he’s got a look of “I guess this is the end, but I’m going to go out honorably.”
Roz
Jaime had nothing left to lose. I keep wanting there to be more to his character because I feel like he peaked really early in this series! I like that interpretation of his moment with Daenerys and the dragon being a flashback to the Mad King and the one defining action in his life – trying to strike down someone who threatened to burn them all.
But it seems like more and more what’s really motivating him is to vanquish all the enemies – not because he really cares, but just so he can be back with Cersei in a world where they can be together.
Cheryl
They’ve both said it before: We’ll kill everyone until we’re the only ones left.
Laura
Jaime is going to survive and presumably be taken hostage or at the very least be unable to return straight to King’s Landing. What will it mean for Cersei, what will it mean for Tyrion, and what will it mean for the Lannister army?
Roz
I’m tempted to bet that he’s going to die. I always wanted to see him repudiate Cersei and find his honor again. But what’s going to pull a man in full armor out of the water?
Cheryl
Also, his fall in the water makes me think of his travels with Brienne, when he’d lost his hand, and he and Brienne were in the baths. I likened that scene to a baptism, where he confessed his sins, purged his old self, and was being born anew, with a fuller understanding of himself and a reawakening of his old values.
I wonder if his plunge might hail back to that: if this will be a wake-up call to his better self. Because since he returned to King’s Landing, he’s been lost and not very interesting, and he hasn’t reined in Cersei in any meaningful way. He hasn’t been able to contain her.
Roz
It was interesting that Tyrion was watching this battle, when in the last one he was so far removed from it as to be a voiceover. In both, he was witnessing his betrayal of his own House in action, and it really seemed to affect him — and that he did not want Jaime to die.
Laura
I felt like he only had feelings for Jaime. I don’t think he cares what happens to the rest of the troops. He’s written off the Lannister army as just the cost of war. Maybe I’m being too callous about Tyrion, but not only would he be somewhat responsible for killing his brother but he killed his dad with no problem. I know it’s a very different scenario, but …
Cheryl
But Jaime was the one who helped Tyrion escape from King’s Landing. Tyrion would not be here if not for Jaime.
And of course there’s Bronn, Tyrion’s best bud. Tyrion introduced Bronn and Jaime, and now they’re fighting on one side, and he’s on the other.
Laura
Let’s talk about Arya’s reunion with Sansa. First we have Arya barred from Winterfell. Again, if you’re spending even a minute telling part of the story, it signifies something. Arya’s whole transformation has been the ability to be anonymous and to not be Arya Stark. So when she needs to put it on again, of course it doesn’t work.
Roz
This Winterfell has lived in her memory through all the show’s seasons. She’s been cut off from knowledge of home for a long time. So she asks for members of Ned’s household who were killed early on, not long after Ned was, but she never knew that.
I’ve thought about Arya’s and Sansa’s reunion more than almost any in the book, so I’m interested to hear what you thought of it.
Laura
Speaking purely as a TV fan, it was great to see Arya and Sansa share the screen again, just because the actors are really good friends in real life. But their characters have not shared the screen since Season 1.
Roz
And they did not part on great terms. They never got along at Winterfell, but by the end each one was mocking the other’s deepest hopes and dreams. Sansa was always embarrassed by Arya and told her she shouldn’t be trying to train. Now look at her – Arya really is a fucking fighter. Arya mocked Sansa because Sansa wanted to be a lady – and she is the lady of a great house now, but look at what that really means.
Cheryl
And the cost. Good point, Roz. And Sansa thought she was in love with Joffrey in Season 1! She only wanted to marry Joffrey.
Roz
And now they both talk about killing him.
Cheryl
Their reunion reminded me of something I once witnessed: I was in a forest on a hiking vacation, and a dog came to camp looking for scraps to eat. A car finally drove up to the site, and a woman jumped out and threw her arms around the dog. She said, “This is my dog! I lost it three weeks ago and we’ve been coming every weekend to look for it!” And the dog did not respond at all. It didn’t wag its tail. It just sat there while the owner cried and hugged it in joy. Eventually the dog began to recognize the owner and started to wag its tail, and remembered its positive feelings about her.
I feel like that’s what happened with Arya and Sansa. When Sansa embraced Arya, Arya was passive: she didn’t hug Sansa back. She acted just as she had with Hot Pie – totally affectless. They then have an exchange, and eventually Arya rushes to Sansa and embraces her. It’s as if she finally had a memory of what family is. Those emotions had lain fallow as she was so disconnected from anything resembling family. She was going to be a Faceless Man. Here, she reconnected with that more human part of herself.
Roz
That is such an interesting comparison. I noticed the first thing that Arya responds to is when Sansa mentions Jon, who was Arya’s favorite sibling. I jotted it down: “That’s the first thing that cracks her mask.” I realized I’d begun to think of Arya as wearing a mask. Of course — the Faceless Men. It confirms for me what I said after the last episode: her choice to go back to Winterfell was a really big deal. Bran even says he saw her “at the crossroads.”
Cheryl
I thought about the Hound, too. In ways that we might not have realized, she was following his path as a solo assassin who really didn’t have any human connections or feelings. She was just an automaton, a killing machine. Hopefully she’s reconnecting to something deeper and to the importance of family. Even Meera talks about going back to her family – she wants to be with them when the end comes. Now Arya is remembering why that is.
Laura
It’s interesting that Sansa knew where to find Arya: in the crypt, looking at their dad, an enduring character (even though Sean Bean had so little screen time). Despite the fact that patriarchy means next to nothing in the show now, he’s still their common ground.
Sansa doesn’t know Arya anymore — they haven’t seen each other in six or eight years at this point — yet she still knows where Arya will be. That is the power of family. As much as we were talking last time about Stark identity not really existing any more, maybe it is bubbling back up.
Roz
There was a moment of acknowledging grief, when they turned and looked at the statue. They’ve never had a chance to process their father’s death with anyone else in the family. Arya certainly hasn’t.
Cheryl
What about Arya’s reconnection with Bran?
Laura
Arya and Sansa could find common ground, even though they acknowledged they were going to leave a lot unsaid and that was how they were going to deal with it. They’ve both had so much trauma. Bran has had just as much trauma but is now all, “Yeah, but I feel a lot of things. I feel everything. So I’m cool.”
It’s what Meera said: “You died in that cave.” Bran’s back, but not really.
Roz
Frankly, I’ve found Bran to be a boring and annoying character. I think the reason he exists in the book is to represent one of the magical forces that are mustering and also to remind us that it’s a final battle fought on many different fronts (might, magic, faith, knowledge, intrigue, etc.). Bran’s part of that now, so his character is important.
But this episode reminded me that in the book, some of the earliest scenes are Bran POV scenes. He is a bright and active and curious child; he’s climbing and exploring and listening to the old stories. Seeing him in this episode reminded me of what is lost when we have all these siblings have been forged into powerful tools. They become more than they were, and yet there’s such a loss.
Cheryl
That was really strengthened for me when Sansa watched while Arya was fighting with Brienne. She seemed disgusted at the end and walked away: “I don’t know who this person is any more.” Here’s Bran, and Sansa can’t connect with him; here’s Arya, and Sansa can’t connect with her. Winterfell is filled with new people. There’s no shared memory. No one even remembers what Ned looked like.
So what is a family? Is it the building? We get a shot of Arya looking around Winterfell when she enters. Is that it? Is it blood? Is it shared memory? Whatever it is, it’s all crumbling. The connection has to be something deeper.
I found it quite interesting that Sansa does not seem to like or appreciate what Arya had turned into. I also found it interesting that Littlefinger was taken aback by Bran’s reference to “chaos is a ladder.” Littlefinger thought he knew everything, could control everything, imagine everything. And here’s Bran saying these things back to him. There’s no way Littlefinger can get his mind around that.
Roz
I think Littlefinger is discovering that these Stark children are not as easy to manipulate as he assumed or expected — although he’s up to something.
But I did not interpret Sansa’s reaction to the fight scene in that same way. I did not think she was disgusted or alienated. At first she’d thought that Arya was joking about her list and her mission to kill, and then all of a sudden Sansa sees how real it is. Maybe Cersei’s assassination is possible.
Laura
Sansa was standing next to Littlefinger, and I thought it was very parallel. She’s watching and processing: Arya’s return means something different than she thought. She and Jon have something else they can use. I don’t think it was quite that callous, but she’s Littlefinger’s protégé. Hopefully she’s taking the good parts of these evil people she’s been surrounded by for so long – the good parts of Littlefinger, that allow her to be calculating; the lessons from Cersei, that can allow her to be vengeful without being cruel. They were literally next to each other as they looked down. Littlefinger is always looming. Now Sansa is looming, too, and I’m not sure what to think.
Cheryl
Sansa didn’t watch until the end. It’s interesting that you had such different feelings about that than I did.
Roz
Going off something you just said, Cheryl, about how there no longer a shared memory: it’s true, but only in a very personal and immediate sense. If you think about it, that’s Bran’s entire function now. The memory of the North used to live at Winterfell in the form of their nanny – Hodor’s (great?) grandmother – who used to tell the tales of the First Men and the Children of the Forest, that only Bran really had ears for and believed in. The memory of the Long Night. And that’s gone now, in that the people who used to inhabit Winterfell are gone. Bran is also gone, but he now holds centuries of memory, and the heart trees have those memories; so even though his person has been erased, there’s more knowledge in Winterfell than there really has been in a long time.
It’s just incredibly unsatisfying to watch on a character level.
Laura
The only other parallel to that is the Citadel, where Sam is, which also holds the collective memory of Westeros.
Roz
Speaking of lost knowledge, why did no one ever invent a Super Dragon Missile Launcher before?
Watching Bronn operate the Scorpion was completely badass. But it doesn’t seem like the technology was unavailable before, so I wonder why it took a rogue maester to figure out how to do that.
Laura
It’s been at least a century since there were any dragons, and those were the size of cats. So it’s been a couple centuries since there were any larger dragons. Also, the first dragon attack, hundreds of years ago, was by surprise. Then everyone sort of accepted Targaryen rule for a long time. By the time rebellion was in order, with Robert, there weren’t any living dragons. The Mad King had none. So there was never a real need or opportunity to build one before.
Cheryl
Let’s go to the scene with Dany and Jon. It starts out with Dany talking to Missandei about sex, at the top of the steps. At the bottom of the steps, Jon arrives. Did you also think this? Sex is on their minds, and then Jon is down there. Then Jon leads her into the cave, which is this Lascaux kind of thing with the drawings.
It was an important and powerful scene when they walked out, somehow bonded in a way for reasons that have not been revealed; we don’t know what happened between them. There was certainly sexual tension. I wondered if they were going to kiss each other, or if she was going to slap him. They’re introducing the notion that there might be something between those two.
Of course Davos later alludes to whatever Jon is staring at on Dany, as well.
Roz
This is where I always assumed the series would end up, and it’s irritating that we’re finally getting to the relationship between these two key characters just as the pacing has accelerated so much.
But I agree with you that it was a very intimate scene. Partly because of the lighting: torchlight. Partly because Dany’s in a different mode – she’s not being imperious at all, at least at first — she’s sharing in this wondrous sight. Also partly because the last time Jon was in a cave, he was with Ygritte.
I also remembered: Ygritte was “kissed by fire.” That was her hair, remember? The way the wildlings always described red hair was “kissed by fire, touched by fire.” Maybe he likes those fiery girls.
Dany was much more open and interacting with him on a human level, rather than demanding allegiance.
Cheryl
Right. It seemed like there was mutual respect. But when Daenerys asked why he refused to bend the knee and why wouldn’t he put his peoples’ needs first before his pride, I had the same question for her. Why is it so important to her for Jon to bend the knee?
Laura
She still sees this whole queen thing as her birthright. Maybe not so much her birthright due to parentage but to who she is: she is the Unburnt, etc. She sees herself as having had a supernatural coronation. I don’t think she’s telling him to bend the knee simply because of pride, but she’s certainly not explaining that well to Jon: that she doesn’t want to be the queen because she wants power, but because it’s the right thing to do.
Cheryl
Missandei tells him that later.
Roz
It was really grating, when she regained her imperious tone. What she said wasn’t exactly wrong – saying that survival is more important than pride – but it just felt like too glib a summary of Jon’s situation. She doesn’t grasp the complexity of what’s happening in the North. He’s already given up quite a bit of pride, doing plenty of things that his men didn’t want him to do, risking the loss of all respect from those he’s supposed to lead. I don’t think pride is what’s motivating him to keep the title.
Laura
Absolutely not. And look what happened last time he did what was right as opposed to what was popular: he got killed! So it makes sense for him to be thinking, look, I can’t just bend the knee, people won’t accept that. He’ll lose the North, the North will become chaotic, and there won’t be a clear leader any more.
Cheryl
Is it true that the Northerners won’t accept a king that bends the knee?
Roz
They did long ago; they’d been united as the Seven Kingdoms for a long time. But since the upheaval after Robert’s death, they’ve twice declared now that they’re done with all that shit. The South was treacherous and killed the Starks. So the Northerners declared for Robb and the old ways. They then did the same for Jon. He almost faced mutiny for simply saying that he was going to Dragonstone. Plus, they feel the threat so much more acutely: not only of the White Walkers but of winter in general. “Winter is coming” are the Stark words because that is some serious shit even in the best of times, and the South truly doesn’t understand that.
Laura
The Northeners want to be isolationists. They don’t want the King in the North to be the king of everything. They don’t want to go to King’s Landing and conquer it. They only want to have a ceasefire. Of course it’s more complicated now because they’ve got White Walkers – they’re literally fighting for their lives – and they’re running out of food for the winter.
Roz
I liked your comment Cheryl about that scene with Jon and Dany emerging together out of the cave. That camera angle and framing seemed really striking.
Cheryl
The scene was quiet, important. Jon and Dany walked out of the cave side by side, as equals. It was my favorite scene, watching them quietly emerge as the waves crashed, the camera behind them. It almost seemed as if they were holding hands, had merged. They had “forged” into something. There was some transformation in there, but we don’t know into what.
And Theon shows up.
Laura
What’s going to happen with Yara? Theon’s coming to seek help to save her. I don’t know why it matters. I love Yara – I want her to stick around – I just don’t understand where that plot is going.
Roz
For me, the pacing is the issue again. This great big alliance between Martell and Targaryen and Greyjoy and Tyrell only lasted for one episode! We hardly knew ye! And it’s already fallen apart. I know that’s the whole plot stirring Dany on right now, but it’s almost as anticlimactic as the very beginning when Drogo hyped the Dothraki to mount the world, and then it all fell apart.
Cheryl
Theon was like a brother to Jon. So these two “brothers” are reunited. Just like Bran, Sansa, and Arya, both Jon and Theon had journeys in which they turned into very different people. Jon has had his miraculous resurrection. I’m interested to see how connected those two are now.
In the prequel, they made sure to show us again that after they drag Theon out of the water, he is lying on the deck and says he tried to save Yara. The sailor responds, “You wouldn’t be here if you tried.”
Roz
Right before the Greyjoy attack, Yara says that Theon’s official role is to be her protector, kind of generously. Ellaria Sand thinks it’s ridiculous. Then obviously Theon fails to protect Yara.
But who is the one person Theon asks about when he shows up in this episode? Sansa. The one other person who knows “no one can protect anyone.” They both share something that they’ve seen in their time with the Boltons. Theon’s still kicking, but I don’t think he has the same idea of heroics, or even duty or honor, as anybody else does.
Laura
It’s interesting to remember that Jon knew the Boltons but only on the battlefield (and that one taunting letter when he was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch). I don’t think he knows fully what’s happened to Sansa. He clearly doesn’t know what happened to Theon.
Roz
I keep thinking about Season 1. When they were kids, all either Jon or Theon wanted was to claim their birthright. That’s what set Theon on his treacherous path: he wanted to go back and be recognized as the firstborn son of Balon Greyjoy and not as the ward of the Starks. Jon really wanted to be recognized as a Stark and not a Snow – in his heart, at least. Neither of them want this birthright, now, it seems.
Cheryl
And they cannot.
Roz
It seems like a long time ago – a really long time ago – that those dreams were key motivations for either of them. But these two were never quite properly part of their families either.
Cheryl
The dreams and aspirations of all the characters have fallen away since Season 1.
“Cripples, bastards, and broken things.” That’s what’s left. And women.
Roz
And eunuchs.
Did you notice that there was an emphasis on titles, names, and rank in this episode?
Davos: “Is it King Jon? King Snow?”
“I’m not Lord Stark”: Bran correcting Littlefinger.
Cheryl
Is it a sign of the system breaking down? The old caste system, titles, obeisance — these were a constant thread running throughout the episode. It started with Jaime and Bronn and rigidly applied court titles, and devolved through the episode.
“My lord” and “my lady” — they mean nothing at the end, like the bag of gold that spills from Bronn’s horse.
“I’m not a lady,” Brienne pointedly tells Pod.
Laura
Even if the families get back together and there’s a coalescing of factions, old alliances, the old system is not going to come back together. It’s sort of humpty-dumptyish.
Roz
It doesn’t fit the people who are left any more or the situation. It’s not that it’s breaking down, it just doesn’t fit – square pegs and round holes.
Cheryl
It’s all about survival now. It’s not even about glory, as Dickon’s reply remind us. Remember in the first season, how characters talked about glory and honor and having others sing songs about them? No one is thinking about that any more.
Roz
Except Ed Sheeran.
Squawks
Laura
My pedantic copy editor’s heart rejoiced when Davos corrected Jon Snow (“fewer” instead of “less”).
Rosalyn
It was a little startling to see evidence of the White Walkers way south. Dragonstone seems really far south of the Wall.
Missandei talks about how she and the others from Essos have chosen Daenerys as their queen, regardless of lineage or lines of succession. Dany reminds Jon that his people have “chosen” him to lead. Since we didn’t get a real Kingsmoot in the Iron Islands, and what with Mance Rayder being show-dead, Dany and Jon may be the only semi-elected leaders around. I think this episode is trying to highlight that they share this in common. For now.
Cheryl
The women this season are wearing little to no makeup. Why?
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