Game of Thrones Discussion, S5E5: Fear Not

Can our fears set us free? Or do they always enslave us? Does maturity mean not only stepping away from parental protection, but facing – and embracing – the things that terrify us?

Step out of that dungeon and into the light and join us for a discussion of “Kill the Boy” with three fans with different perspectives: Laura Fletcher, a casual fan of the television and book series; Corrin Bennett-Kill, a dedicated fan of the book and TV series (she has read all the books four times!); and Cheryl Collins, who does not read.

Please join the discussion in comments!

Cheryl Collins
This was a fitting Mother’s Day episode as mothers’ presence loomed large — that and, it seemed to me, fear.

Corrin Bennett-Kill
Yet another aptly titled episode. We see all our characters setting aside, or being forced to set aside, who they were and coming to terms with the price that must be paid for adulthood and all the responsibility that implies.

Dany makes the very grown up decision to marry to bring peace to her city. Jon alienates friends and enemies alike to make what he sees as the most responsible decision for the most people, for the greater good. Ramsay seems to more fully inhabit his role as Roose Bolton’s heir after his smack down at his father’s hand for his childish behavior with Reek and Sansa.

Writ slightly smaller are the references to Sam stepping out from under the shadow of his father’s disappointment in the conversation with King Stannis. And there is literal motherhood for Fat Walda (who still makes me chuckle).

Cheryl
Transformation was the key … but then, who is not in the process of transforming in this show? For example, Grey Worm finally accepts he is human and has feelings for Missandei.

Laura
Transformation, and catalysts for it.

Cheryl
I noted that almost all the scenes were in bleak windowless rooms, rooms with windows with no view (just grey light), dungeons, and darkened corridors. That begins to change when Stannis sets out and there stabs of color in the greyness — in banners and shields, and Melisandre’s red — and his army finally marches out. Then: the lushness of Valyria, made more striking by the contrast.

Laura Fletcher
We should tackle Maester Aemon’s speech to Jon, as that’s where the title was quoted. Speaking of bleak, Cheryl: that scene was very dark, and compounded by Aemon’s blindness.

Corrin
As if we didn’t already understand Maester Aemon’s faith in Jon after he was the deciding vote in Jon’s elevation to Lord Commander, that scene where Aemon counsels Jon to “kill the boy” so the man could arise is further evidence. Aemon believes wholly in Jon.

Cheryl
In the teaser, we are reminded who Aemon is: a Targaryen. Could it be that Aemon is “seeing” possibilities of a connection with Dany?

Corrin
Another connection being made between the Targaryen in the East and the one in the West. Between one in the frozen north and one in the heat of Slaver’s Bay. Fire and Ice, baby!

Cheryl
Aemon refuses to give Jon counsel, he just cuts him off and basically says, “Don’t ask me! Trust yourself as a leader!” Which is what Missandei tells Dany later.

Fire and Ice indeed!

Corrin
Jon and Dany are certainly being set up in parallel.

Cheryl
And the link: Tyrion.

Corrin
Mayhap. Remember Tyrion’s fondness for bastards and broken things from his and Jon’s first meeting in the first episode.

Cheryl
Yes, there seemed to be a few references to the beginning in this episode.

Corrin
That parallel between Dany and Jon was reinforced by the fact that we spent much of the episode in the North and Meereen, with only the time spent on Jorah and Tyrion’s journey through old Valyria tying them together.

Cheryl
Yes, we ping-ponged between the two.

Laura
And Aemon and Sam were discussing Dany when Jon walked in — another parallel.

Corrin
The old Northman with his allegiance to his queen pushing him forward on his path to deliver Tyrion. That Jorah was willing to venture into the territory of the Stone Men makes me reconsider his purpose in kidnapping Tyrion.

Maybe it isn’t for delivering a Lannister to Targayen justice.

Laura
Intriguing! And what does Jorah know, or suspect, about Tyrion and/or Daenerys?

Corrin
What about the possibility that Jorah is taking Tyrion to Dany for the original reason Tyrion was heading there in the first place? To help her gain the throne.

Laura
Right! Jorah certainly doesn’t give much away. Plays it as close to the chest as possible.

Corrin
If he was taking him for vengeance, let Tyrion drown and deliver the body. Why save him?

He doesn’t just love Dany. He BELIEVES in her.

Cheryl
I agree. He WANTS her to succeed, and he wants to be a part of that success.

Laura
I think the way through Valyria is a shortcut, but as Jorah says, no pirates ever go that way, whether out of superstition or actual danger (and it seems some of both are true).

Cheryl
Let’s go back to Dany and her decision to feed the Meereenese masters to her dragons …

We started in Meereen, where all hell is ready to break loose as Dany further loses her grip. Daario suggests pulling back to the Pyramid and rooting out the terrorists.

She really seemed to be going off the rails there.

Corrin
Or going back to her roots.

Laura
What I was thinking, Corrin! Back to the more severe, tyrannical (for good) force of the Mother of Dragons.

Cheryl
In the last eppy we saw her wearing a white dress with tiny feathers, and I said at the time she looked like a bird with clipped wings. This time it was a white dress with what looked like scales. She is morphing, too, seemed to be the message … just as Jorah is.

Corrin
Drogon’s return seemed to return her confidence in her role as Mother of Dragons, if she’s willing to venture into the catacombs again.

Laura
I can see why Dany did decided to marry the Meereenese master: I think she’d already decided to marry one of the family heads, and Hizdahr zo Loraq was the least afraid. The bravest.

Cheryl, good catch on the dress! She literally left the nest. Killed the girl, in her case.

Corrin
I also wonder what kind of fruit her marriage will bear? It SEEMS like a shortsighted play given her long-term goal to sit on the Iron Throne.

Cheryl
Maybe she’ll set him up as king and skip town. Meaning (as some would have had it in Iraq): “declare victory and go home.”

Corrin
The possibility of her remarrying as a possibility to entice other rulers into alliance or better behavior was always out there. Why would Dany give it away to a “foreigner” when she could marry, say, Jaime or Loras or some other Westerosi lord to help seal her hold on the throne?

It seemed like an odd play in the book to me, too. Like she was losing focus on her big goal. She is spending too much time consolidating herself as an eastern queen rather than going home.

It reminds me of Queen Elizabeth I and her refusal to marry.

Cheryl
And she refuses to hunker down, per Daario’s advice.

As mentioned, all of these actions were in poorly lit rooms with no windows or blank windows — as though all the characters were prisoners. It’s not until Dany steps into the cell with Hizdahr and makes her decision known that she is enveloped in light bouncing off the walls.

Laura
She’s good at making decisions in the moment, and she has her eyes on the prize, but when it comes to Meereen she seems indecisive.

She’s not married yet so perhaps this is another ploy?

Cheryl
Speaking of possible marriages … what about Sansa and the Boltons?

Laura
Were we supposed to recognize the loyal northerner that Brienne entrusted to get a message to Sansa?

Cheryl
Brienne was stuck at a window, staring out at Winterfell.

Ramsay is beginning to show her his nuttiness — talk about off the rails. So different from his smooth, cool, emotionless father.

Corrin
I was grateful that Sansa got a glimpse of the real Ramsay this week rather than persisting in the idea that he was already in love with her. Forewarned is forearmed.

Laura
And Myranda showed Sansa the rest, through Theon.

Corrin
I think Sansa is capable of guarding herself, but not if she’s not sufficiently wary.

And that Myranda chick did her a favor that I think she will live to regret. Especially if Ramsay finds out it was her that directed Sansa to Reek.

Cheryl
We went back to the broken keep, which of course is where Bran was pushed out of the window by Jaime in the first episode.

Laura
Cheryl, that’s right! Duhhh!

Corrin
The act that set all this in motion. And that’s the place Sansa has been given to look for salvation …

Cheryl
Coming full circle. We had several refs to the littlest Starks this episode, which makes me wonder if they may appear soon. We saw the dead bodies of the boys killed in their stead, and we saw a flashback to them in the teaser.

Corrin
Bran is out of the picture for the foreseeable future. As for Rickon, no one knows what’s happened to him.

Laura
Bran is really, really far north, the equivalent of the North Pole basically. I suppose Bran could start coming south, which we’ll see about. But it would take a long while. Unlike other characters, he’s not likely to run into anyone we know.

I’m wondering if Sansa will find out that Bran and Rickon are alive, and what that will mean for her.

Corrin
Or what, if anything, he’s being protected for.

Laura
That flashback to the stand-in dead bodies was a reminder that Theon’s descent into Reek-dom started before Ramsay got a hold of him.

Corrin
It’s a measure of Ramsay’s hold on Reek that he would cop to two murders that both Reek and Ramsay know he didn’t commit. I mean he killed those two boys, but not Sansa’s brothers.

Laura
Ramsay is using this fact to torture (emotionally, at least) both Theon/Reek and Sansa.

Cheryl
So the question is, how much Theon is left? When he tells Sansa she “should not be here” (in the dog kennel), I thought, yeah, this is Theon’s long con.

Laura
Is this a long con or is Theon really and truly brainwashed? He couldn’t even be Theon long enough to let his sister rescue him way back last season.

Corrin
I think Theon is gone. He may not be entirely Reek, but he’s done being Theon.

Cheryl
But now his loyalties are being tested in Winterfell and perhaps reawakened by Sansa’s presence … that’s why I thought they showed that flash on the dead bodies.

Laura
Cheryl, that phrase “you should not be here” is pretty loaded. It certainly seems like “here” is more than the kennel.

Cheryl
When he apologizes to her at dinner — forced by Ramsay — Theon/Reek (and the great actor who plays him, Alfie Allen) had tears in his eyes. It was real.

Laura
My hope/prediction: Theon has one courageous act left but will sacrifice himself. He’s like some other characters in that he has a death wish, and he’s a lot closer to death than most of them.

(Why yes, I did just connect Theon and the Hound.)

Corrin
That’s definitely a possibility, Cheryl. Although the chapters in book five that deal with Reek most certainly show a very altered person, I’m speculating based on how they are setting Sansa and Reek up: his obvious guilt around her warring with his fear of Ramsay.

Laura
As for Roose telling Ramsay about his mother: What an awful, rape-tastic story. A reminder that as much as Roose isn’t the same outwardly sadistic fucker, the apple didn’t fall all that far from the (rape) tree.

Cheryl
What’s so weird is that he tells the story and then says in effect “I decided to keep you anyway,” like it’s the happy ending of a fairy tale.

Laura
Roose is just savvier. He was raised in more “proper” lordly settings. Basically he’s probably just like Ramsay on the inside.

Cheryl
Well, finally Stannis sets off … but before that, he connects with Sam, and Sam and Gilly chat about books.

Laura
Both of those things showed the importance and influence of books, right? And by extension, Sam. Lest we forget that he has slain a White Walker and is trying to figure out how to save all of Westeros from them!

Cheryl
I wondered, why did Stannis go to that room? Was it to meet Sam? Doesn’t seem so. An odd bit of writing. But it ends with Stannis giving Sam the seal of approval.

Corrin
Sam has a role to play yet.

Laura
I am just so shocked at how much more I’m liking and respecting Stannis: for understanding the importance of the Wall and the North/White Walkers, for loving (in his way) Shireen, even for following Melisandre since she seems to be on to something.

Cheryl
So Stannis sets off into the frozen waste, and there are some hints of color. It felt to me, after so much time in this episode spent in small dark rooms: release!

Corrin
Right. That visual reminder of the importance of the Lord of Light in all of this.

Laura
Now I’m worried about who will be left behind at Castle Black if Jon has to go talk to the Wildlings, Stannis is out conquering the North, Sam and Gilly are likely headed south, and possibly Aemon is ill.

Cheryl
And with that interaction with Shireen, we are reminded that greyscale is cureable.

Laura
True! Get thee to a Maester, Jorah!

Corrin
Those were some truly creepy scenes with Valyria and the Stone Men.

Cheryl
But wasn’t Valyria beautiful: the lushness, the green, the mist? It seemed enchanted, until we discover it was … filled with surprises.

Corrin
I totally thought that the episode was over when Tyrion went under.

Laura
That was a truly, truly great fake-out.

Corrin
That shot when they finally see the dragon and how it distracted them from the Stone Man jumping into the river, I was all, “Look behind you!”

Cheryl
How often do you see Tyrion surprised by anything?

That last scene, with Jorah enveloped in light, was beautiful.

Laura
If Dany is the second coming, as the Priestess of Light said a few episodes back, then is Jorah her angel? Fallen from grace and everything. (Can you tell I want Jorah to be a super important character?)

Cheryl
The transformational power of fear. Is that way too pretentious as a theme?

They are all stepping into the unknown, doing truly scary things … even if it means, for Grey Worm, falling in love.

Corrin
I saw it more as a shedding of youth for maturity.

Laura
The only way to shed youth is to scare it away — to face fears.

Squawks

Laura

• When Stannis corrected someone to say “fewer” instead of “less,” I DIED LAUGHING. I totally did that (in my head, to avoid my husband calling me a pedant for the millionth time). As if I needed another reason to love Stannis.

Corrin

• My heart broke a little for Jon in that scene between him and Olly. He realized how separate from others command will make him.

Cheryl

• The actor who plays Aemon is over 90 years old! So when Aemon spoke of what his 100-year-old body felt like, it wasn’t necessarily a stretch.

• In the opening credits, the big Harpy is still up in Meereen. But it was toppled, right? Interesting they still keep it there.

• There was not a lot of action this episode, just like last week. Last week was lots of violence, this week we had the bare asses of Myranda and Ramsay and their weird sex game. It’s like the show runners feel we need to have sex and violence to keep our attention through the slower bits.

• Could Valyria have been destroyed by a natural catastrophe? Like Pompeii? Seems like a good excuse to include a pic of Kit Harrington in what Wikipedia describes as the “2014 German-Canadian-American 3D historical disaster romance film”:

And one of our favorite Wildings is the new “Wyndham Hotel Reward Wizard.” No, we are not making this up (h/t Laura):

Please join us in comments! But please! No spoilers.

And Happy (belated) Mother’s Day, Laura and Corrin!