Does it matter what you call yourself? And do you let your enemies define you?
Join us for a discussion of “High Sparrow” with three fans with different perspectives: Laura Fletcher, a casual fan of the television and book series; Corrin Bennett-Kill, a dedicated fan of the book and TV series (she has read all the books four times!); and Cheryl Collins, who does not read.
Please join the discussion in comments!
Cheryl Collins
Did anyone else feel this episode kicked ass?
Corrin Bennet-Kill
I really liked it. I especially liked the focus on the Stark kids and that moment between Pod and Brienne.
Laura Fletcher
Lots of great juxtapositions, and lots of Starks, so you know I’m excited.
Cheryl
There seemed to be such an air of menace in the air, in almost every scene.
Laura
I think Sansa Stark stole the episode. Arya had more screen time, but Sansa’s scenes were breathtakingly powerful.
Cheryl
Let’s start there. Sansa has made her deal with the devil it seems … but is she gaslighting Littlefinger to get what she wants? That is, letting him believe what he wants to?
Corrin
This is probably the most significant departure from the books. It is part of what makes the Sansa scenes so engaging: they are new territory for us.
I see Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton, becoming the true Lady Stark and the Stark in Winterfell, and then quietly slitting her husband’s throat one fine evening.
Laura
I think Sansa doesn’t have a whole plan formed yet, but she realized she may have more to gain by going along with Littlefinger and the Boltons for now, while she works it out.
Corrin
That moment when Sansa “turns it on” when she meets Ramsay was chilling and amazing at the same time. THIS is what I was talking about when I said I see Melisandre in Sansa. Ice in her veins, this girl!
Laura
Although that brief shot we got of Ramsay’s real-piece-of-work girlfriend eyeing Sansa was menacing as hell! (Remember her egging him on last season while he hunted another young woman? Ugh.)
Cheryl
And isn’t Ramsay even more creepy as he puts on his best behavior before the wedding, while Theon/Reek walks around with sharp knives at hand, and Ramsay’s lover stews … lots of danger awaits there. Both Sansa and Ramsay are putting on a show for their elders.
Corrin
I am also, surprisingly, not all that pissed at Littlefinger for trying to marry Sansa off. He has taken her on almost as an apprentice in sneakery, and she is showing her aptitude by hiding her real feelings about her return to Winterfell.
Yes, Cheryl. Ramsay on good behavior gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Cheryl
While Theon was walking around with that cooked meat, handling the knife, we wondered what he was thinking. And he seemed to have some real remorse flicker through him, as the hanging flayed people (which was extremely horrible) reminded him of the children he burned, I thought.
Cool point about Sansa learning at Littlefinger’s side. There were many apprentices in this episode, come to think of it. You may have hit on the theme of this episode.
There was Arya of course, and Pod, and Jon’s apprentice, Olly.
Laura
I thought it was interesting how savvy Roose Bolton is — he reminds me a bit of Tywin, and now Kevan Lannister. He knows he’s being played and is trying to stay one step ahead. Not sure if Littlefinger’s usual tricks will work. He has to mix in more truth than usual with his lies around Roose.
Corrin
Much of what we get from Theon/Reek at this point in his story is internal monologue. They are really doing an excellent job conveying his mixed emotions at the appearance of Sansa Stark through some minimal screen time.
Roose does seem to be taking Tywin’s place as a menacing patriarch.
Laura
The burned children remind me again of the littlest Stark, Rickon — now that we’re rounding up Starks, I wonder if there’s a chance we’ll catch up with him and Osha.
Corrin
But Roose Bolton is even more forbidding in that he doesn’t even have the love for his children to soften him or give him humanity. His legitimizing Ramsay was expedient. He married Fat Walda (I loved seeing her) because Walder Frey promised him his bride’s weight in gold.
Cheryl
Roose seems to be logical, expedient … what he does make sense.
Corrin
What about Jon Snow at the Wall? Or should I say, Lord Commander Snow. His rejection of Stannis’s offer for legitimacy and subsequent conflict shows him so much more Ned Stark’s son than even his brothers were. As Stannis said, honorable, but not a compliment.
Cheryl
And his decision to kill Slynt?
Corrin
It was Ned Stark all the way: a replay of the first scene from the first season, when Ned Stark beheads the deserter from the Night’s Watch.
Cheryl
I thought the same thing Corrin — it was a repeat of the first season’s scene. However, Ned did not want to kill that kid, but you could see Jon really kind of wanted to — but then changed his mind when Slynt asked for mercy, but went ahead when he cried he was a coward.
He had a small smile on his face before he headed out for the task … it’s as though he was relishing the chance to show he was a leader of mettle. He strode out to the execution as if he was finally ready for his close-up.
Corrin
If you’re going to condemn a man to die, let it be by your hand, your sword. I think that Jon was satisfied that the situation was coming to a head, but I don’t think he killed Slynt for the pleasure of it. I honestly thought he was going to give Slynt the mercy he was calling for.
Cheryl
When Slynt refused his order, you could see his thought bubble: “You talkin’ to me? You talkin’ to me?” it was a chance for Jon’s leadership to be tested in front of his men.
Corrin
That more than anything showed the leader Jon is becoming, his ability to look beyond the moment, even sacrificing his own conscience for what would be a long-term problem.
Laura
I was SHOCKED when Jon really executed him. Jon’s whole demeanor changed this episode. He became … an adult, I guess.
Corrin
And to the appointment of Alliser Thorne as first ranger! Gaining that ally just as he would need it.
Cheryl
And Thorne seemed to respect him.
Corrin
Politically savvy, Jon.
Corrin
Stannis and Davos come off a lot more genuine and not quite so, um, rigid in Jon’s presence. Not fanatical. We see a bit of the king Stannis could be.
Cheryl
I thought that Davos was making an argument that Jon could respond to. They both spoke the same language.
Laura
Davos was super convincing. Now that we know the show isn’t hesitant to bring characters together, I’m wondering if — and hoping — Jon and Sansa will meet.
Cheryl
I wondered the same thing Laura. Will Jon attack as Sansa is trapped inside, and be used as a hostage?
Laura
And interestingly, it seems Sansa is no longer undercover as Littlefinger’s niece (or whatever that cover story was) — she’s publicly “out” as a Stark. How long until word spreads, as as we’ve seen there are no secrets in Westeros (or in Essos for that matter)?
Cheryl
Great point. “The North remembers,” we are reminded …
There are ravens at Winterfell (the camera made sure we saw them); so word can travel far.
Laura
So many meaningful glances this episode. Alliser Thorne giving eyebrows to Slynt when he refused Jon’s order, Ramsay’s girlfriend’s stare, Arya and the woman in the House of Black and White, and Littlefinger’s knowing look when Sansa rode off ahead, tacitly agreeing to the marriage.
Cheryl
And that preacher woman in Volantis who seems to recognize Tyrion.
Corrin
Can we talk about Tyrion?
That first moment in the wagon when he was flicking the window open and shut, and claiming he was going mad, reminded me of Homer Simpson “No beer, no TV make Homer something something.” Just watching him slowly lose his mind.
Cheryl
And then we are introduced to Volantis in that beautiful crane shot above the roofs.
Last week we noted that boxes and crates were a big visual theme (and the post was titled “Boxed In”); I thought of that as Tyrion whined how desperate he was to get out of the wheelhouse.
Corrin
There was a TON packed into Tyrion’s scenes. The reappearance of Jorah. How Tyrion is all PTSD about his murder of Shae.
Laura
Volantis was a fascinating narrative place. They seem to have all the knowledge (and rumors) of both east and west, from the Danaerys-dressed sex worker to the recognition of Tyrion.
Corrin
Even that red priestess. This is the third glimpse into that religion we have had on the show, and each member of that clergy has done something remarkable.
Thoros of Myr who raised what’s-his-name from the dead. Melisandre and her shadow babies. And this woman who seems to pick out the most important person in the crowd and skewer him with knowledge that she shouldn’t have.
Cheryl
Unbelievable point, Corrin.
She was professing the faith in both the lord off fire and the Dany-goddess … weird.
Corrin
It seems that of all the faiths (the seven, the old gods), the red god is the most active. And is working in the world. The fire god at the time the long winter is coming.
Laura
Also clears throat the reappearance of Jorah!! #Jorahfangirl.
Cheryl
Laura, I thought of you when Jorah showed up, staring miserably into his drink and trying not to be aroused by the faux-Dany in the brothel.
Tyrion escaped one box and ended up bound and gagged. Oh well!
Corrin
Headed to “the Queen.” One wonders which queen, eh?
Laura
Especially since Dany told Jorah to take a hike. Is he back in league with the Lannisters?
Cheryl
You don’t think Jorah would take Tywin to Cersei, could you? (gasps)
Corrin
He could be. Dany was pretty pissed. He could think that road is closed. Or the Queen could be Margaery.
Just like Littlefinger let everyone think the marriage proposal was a marriage for him, Jorah is letting us all wonder to whom his has given his allegiance.
After all, Jorah became a slaver for love of a woman, exiled for love of a woman. Betrayed his employer (the Lannisters) for love of a woman (Dany).
Cheryl
The torment on his face — with the camera so close — as he struggled with his emotions as the blonde-haired, bare-assed whore strutted about … it was too much for him. Nice acting, there, Jorah.
Lots of time spent in brothels this episode, to make up for GoT’s lack of action there in the first two episodes. So. Many. Asses.
Laura
I really was half expecting Arya and her compatriots to fully undress that corpse, just because of Game of Asses.
Corrin
Shall we stay across the pond and discuss Arya?
Cheryl
That first shot, of all the many god symbols in the House of Black and White, seemed to set to tone of the episode, maybe of this season (or even series, at this point).
Corrin
Lots of religion so far this season.
Laura
The description of the many-faced god as, basically, EVERY god was fascinating.
Cheryl
I wondered if as she swept the floor and the guy keeled over and died, she thought, “what the hell did I walk into?”
Corrin
Arya is being asked to divest herself of her long cherished identity just as Sansa is reclaiming hers and Jon is giving up on part of his.
That process of stripping herself of the outward things that made her “Arya Stark” was heartbreaking, especially when it came to Needle, her last link with Jon.
Cheryl
And Arya finally sheds her identity and becomes … what? As the apprentice of Jaqen, she seemed a twin of the Sparrows. The Sparrows are in light cloth tunics, she is in a black (or dark) simple tunic — again the contrast of the black and white.
She is being asked to submit, and as you say, strip away her Starkness.
Corrin
The god that gives the gift of death, of surcease. I think that was the way in which Arya didn’t understand what they would do with the dead man. She refused that gift to the Hound. Death, to her isn’t surcease, it is vengeance. Retribution.
Cheryl
As someone who is clueless about what the books say is going on there, it was not clear at all that what Jaqan was giving was a true “gift” of death or simply death (as in murder). What was happening felt menacing, because the meaning was uncertain.
As I spied those sharp instruments on the table next to the dead man, I wondered what the hell they were going to do to the body. Also curious was the odd look the other apprentice gives when Arya asks what happens to the body. Another parallel: that body and the body on the table at Qybrun’s.
Corrin
She and Jon had that moment when he gave her Needle as a link between them. It was the last time that all the Starks were alive and together. By divesting herself of those trappings, she has to say good-bye to the happiest part of her life.
Laura
Ironically Arya wanted to become a Faceless Man so she could get vengeance. As that’s basically a Catch-22 (if she keeps her identity, she won’t be trained), I wonder what she’ll decide.
Cheryl
But Arya can’t give her last tie to her identity and stashes Needle away …
Corrin
What about Cersei? Another moment of changing identities. As she is supplanted by a younger queen.
Cheryl
Last week, we spoke of boxes, and here Cersei was trapped in that tiny palanquin as she was ferried in the first scene to Tommen’s wedding, as the everyone seems to call out Margaery’s name.
Corrin
“What do I call you? Queen Mother or Dowager Queen?”
Cheryl
That was an amazing moment. What a twist of the knife.
Laura
That and Margaery basically bragging about all her shagging to her MOTHER-IN-LAW. Good. Ness.
Cheryl
Yes, they’re quite liberal in Highgarden.
I felt sorry for Cersei, and I suspect we saw some foreshadowing of what is to come for her, as the High Septon is paraded through the streets.
Corrin
Well, Cersei was a wife, a mother, a lover, a power broker, a queen. Now her children are “gone,” she is widowed, her lover has left, her father has died, and another woman has supplanted her as queen. I think all of us would be a little edgy.
Laura
Cersei is being backed into a corner by Margaery and the High Council, and they’d best watch out. She’s at her most cunning — and dangerous — when desperate. Tywin is dead and Jaime is not in town to calm her, either. And now her son is trying to kick her out of the in-law suite.
Cheryl
Cersei seems like a trapped cat who is about to attack. When she thrusts herself at Margaery at the end of their conversation, it was unclear whether she was going to spit, claw, or scream. She had enough control to only offer assistance. Margaery and Cersie are two more characters who are play-acting in their formal interactions (as are Ramsay and Sansa, and Jon and Thorne).
Laura
Not sure exactly what Cersei has in mind for the Sparrows, but her move to protect them (and condemn the High Septon) is certainly not done out of respect for faith, as she claimed. And I think the High Sparrow knows there’s more to it than that, too.
Cheryl
I felt she was trying to gain an ally in the High Sparrow, to use against Margaery at a later date. Margaery, who made a big show of helping the poor …
Laura
What a strange alliance that would be!
Cheryl
How about Tommen’s complete cluelessness: “It was over so fast,” “Did I hurt you?” Take a look at Margaery’s face as Tommen rolls off of her; it says: “that was a lot of work.”
Corrin
Margaery is certainly vying for power, but to what end, I’m still not sure. Is it for “the good of the realm” like Varys or personal power like Cersei?
Will Margaery be a good influence on Tommen or not?
Laura
Cersei is for herself but also her children/family. She’s in the middle, I guess, of those two extremes (Varys vs. Littlefinger).
Cheryl
The way that Margaery and her friends laughed at Cersei as she walked away with her guards did not bode well …
Corrin
It didn’t bode well for Cersei, that’s for sure.
Cheryl
Margaery’s got the power she’s been working so hard to gain. Now what will she do with it? Her grandmother is a good model.
Corrin
- I did want to mention that scene between Brienne and Pod again. We finally got the explanation of Brienne’s relationship with Renly and part of what drives her. And her nickname “Brienne the Beauty.” We have been making assumptions about her end goal and the reasons for it, but now we have some confirmation.
Laura
- There’s a strong parallel between the Lord of Light folks (specifically our new foxy priestess in Volanis) and the Sparrows: democracy. Both mention in this episode how all people are equal in the eyes of their faith, and it’s worth violently defending that equality. The priestess said something like their god speaks the same to kings and slaves … and the Sparrow said all people are equal in the eyes of the Seven. There is the asceticism of the House of Black and White and the Sparrows. So it seems we’re being given lots of connections between the religions. and we’re seeing that democratic ideal sprouting up, seemingly organically, in both the east and the west.
Cheryl
- Did anyone see a parallel between the Sparrows and whatever cult Arya has found herself a member of (I exaggerate … but …)
- Black and white continued as a visual clue in this episode. For example, when Brienne (and her yellow hair) was speaking of what she wanted to do to Stannis, she was framed by two black horses behind her head as she spoke of vengeance. It seemed a nod to the notion that we are all a mix of good and bad; in other words, a mix of all gods, as it were.
- As Jon walked out to execute Slynt, the camera stayed in the room for a moment to catch his shadow on the wall as the fire burned. Were they making a point of his “shadow” side, or even about Melisandre’s power? The immediate next shot was of a completely shadowed guard on watch, a darkened figure … there were a number of shots of gratuitous shadowed figures in the episode.
- Diversity alert: the fire priestess seesm to be the first Asian character … that I recall, anyway.
- These words from Dylan seem apt for this episode:
You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything, no matter what you say
You’re still gonna have to serve somebody
Yes you’re gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody
Please join the discussion in comments … but please, no spoilers!