Do you feel dizzy trying to keep up with the magical travel times, strained plot devices, and breakneck pace of “Eastwatch”? Were you willing to overlook all because you can’t wait to see how the “seven samurai” would take on the dead?
Catch your breath with three fans with different perspectives: Rosalyn Claret, who has read the books she “forgets” how many times; Laura Fletcher, a casual fan of the television and book series; and Cheryl Collins, who does not read.
Join the conversation in comments!
Cheryl
Should we plunge right into this discordant, oddly paced, hodge-podge of an episode?
We start with Jaime’s amazing save on the field of battle. What was your take on his being plucked out of the water by Bronn and the events afterward, including the incineration of the two Tarlys?
Laura
It’s interesting that they immediately tied up with a neat bow what happened to Jaime. His fate was not in question for more than the week between episodes: it was the very last scene and the very first scene. And to me that just seems really emblematic of how the entire season is going — we’re going to give you the tiniest itty-bitty cliffhanger — but just kidding! Bronn saved him! Because Bronn needs his money! Moving on.
It was kind of consistent with Bronn, but I’m not sure I believed that Bronn did it just for self-interest.
Roz
Interestingly, Jaime didn’t question Bronn’s motive or behavior either.
Right after that scene were shots of Tyrion wandering around the battlefield. He seems very struck by the battle and all the ash, which is different from all the other battle aftermath scenes we’ve seen.
Cheryl
It felt like nuclear winter, with all that ash. There’s no life at all. Not only were the men dead but so were the horses, and the food was incinerated. They made sure we saw shots of all of those things.
Laura
That leads to the execution of the Tarlys, which in turn leads to Tyrion reckoning with whether he’s following the right person. And Varys tells him he has to learn to control her. I don’t know what the episode did with that afterward.
But this is what you were saying about it being an oddly paced episode: it seemed like we did slow down, we had to think carefully about this scene of Dany dispensing justice. This awful martyrdom that was really pointless. It also explains why we met up with Dickon: so we could see him juuuust enough to not really want him to fry, even though he’s kind of an asshole to Sam.
Tyrion is being way more practical than Dany. It seems like Tyrion’s solution with the Tarlys wasn’t meant only to represent empathy contrasted with Dany’s hard line. His way also seemed very practical: both of these guys are good in battle. Use them!
Cheryl
Exactly. Why are we incinerating excellent fighters?
Roz
It certainly presents Dany in an unflattering light. In the after-episode special, the showrunners said, “Was it smart? Was it just? You decide.” I don’t think we’re meant to like it. She looks very self-satisfied as she turns away from these two burning heaps and all the terrified soldiers, and Tyrion looks heartbroken and really stricken.
Jon offered mercy to those Houses in the North, when Sansa wanted to punish them. Here, Tyrion wanted to offer mercy, but Dany went through with her punishment. It doesn’t seem to be a positive thing.
With Dany, we constantly see this push and pull, where she’s supposed to be merciful, but not weak; powerful, but still have a heart. Maybe this is the pendulum of her character’s development swinging back one way for now.
Laura
It’s an interesting gender reversal I’d never really put together: the women are the ones who are really stuck on vengeance. As a little book aside, it’s interesting to note that even without the Catelyn Stark storyline of her returning from the dead, hellbent on vengeance, we are still getting the idea of women stuck on vengeance.
The only one who seems to be slowing her roll on this front is Cersei, weirdly.
Roz
But she’s up to something!
Cheryl
Sparing the Tarlys could eventually come back to haunt her — like in “Saving Private Ryan,” when Tom Hanks let the German guy go and he kills him at the end. You can’t release those who will not bend the knee serve you.
On the other hand, the way she uttered “Dracarys” sounded so emotionless and flat. When Jon had to kill those four people for murdering him (!), he clearly didn’t want to do it.
Roz
That’s a good comparison. It was a matter of duty and pragmatism for Jon, whereas Dany seems like she’s just taking out her temper. For the rest of the episode, she seemed waaaay less certain of herself. Like maybe she was having second thoughts. Especially as none of her advisors seemed to think it was the greatest idea. She seems much more off-balance or even a little girlish in the rest of the episode, at least compared to how she starts in that first scene.
Laura
That leads into Jon and his new best friend Lassie, aka Drogon. We can all tell that we’re supposed to say, “Ooh, more hints about his Targaryen nature!” We get it!
Cheryl
I have to say I didn’t even think about that connection. D’oh. It never even occurred to me.
Laura
There were a lot of things like that in this episode in particular that seemed to be fan service. There’s all these fan theories that other people are going to ride the dragon.
Roz
“The dragon has three heads”? I thought of that too, Laura. Another prophecy. Basically: there’s three dragons in the world now, and only one dragon-rider. So who are the other two people who are going to be the “heads of the dragon”? That’s what I thought about when I saw this scene with Jon.
Maybe that’s why they built up Dany as kind of annoying, because they also just incidentally dropped that maybe she doesn’t have the best claim to the throne. Maybe they’re building up the drama of an eventual reveal: that she’s proceeding as if she’s the rightful ruler, when actually she’s not.
Laura
If Jon’s parents are who we think they are, then he himself is fire and ice. He’s already got both. He’s got the Stark blood, he’s got the Targaryen blood. So does he need Dany, if he can also control dragons?
To me, I wondered if it was a glimmer of jealousy or fear in her expression: “Oh shit, what if someone else can do this? I better act like I’m really important. ‘Oh, are you scared of my dragon?’ ”
He clearly isn’t scared of your dragon.
Roz
And Drogon was scary when he was running toward Jon!
In this episode, Dany certainly seemed more obvious about being interested in Jon. Maybe she thought, “Oh, I like Jon, and my dragon can tell he’s a good guy too.” Like when your dog likes your boyfriend.
Cheryl
How many people approach her as an equal? How many people are not afraid of her dragons? And he’s so nonchalant about it. He just doesn’t have time for that bullshit. “No, I don’t have to wait for you to let me go” he in effect says. When it’s time to go, he just walks away. He doesn’t even look back as he heads into the water. He’s not even allowing himself to be attracted to her because he’s on a mission, and he needs to fulfill his duty. He clearly doesn’t see her as above him.
Roz
He said in this episode, “I am a king.” I haven’t heard him say anything like that before. It’s always been more about “my people chose” me or “I have a job to do.”
Cheryl
In my mind, she clearly was trying to pull rank because she didn’t want him to go. And Jorah saw it.
Laura
They’re hitting us over the head with the flirting. But as something new, there’s also this competitiveness between them. Obviously they were rivals before they made this alliance, as tenuous as it is. But he hasn’t been interested in the power aspect of it. So maybe it’s not just her trying to tamp down his ambitions — which he doesn’t have; it’s more, her trying to tamp down his ambitions — which are growing.
Roz
I also thought she was sent off-center by developing a plan — her “be a dragon!” plan — to attack the supply chain, and then being faced with advisors who are all meh about it. In the rest of the episode, it seemed like she was seeking Jon’s approval or at least some point of connection. She gives a kind of cute, flirtatious goodbye to him, and he says, “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.” Peace out! It’s very formal.
Cheryl
Then he just goes to the front of the boat and starts pulling it into the water. No longing looks back, no nothing. Just, “Okay, I have a job to do, it’s off to face the horde of the dead!” Everybody else wants Dany, and Jon doesn’t. Maybe that’s what she finds attractive.
Roz
She does try to reiterate what she sees as their common bond, that they both want to help people from positions of power, and power is terrible sometimes. But it doesn’t seem like anyone is super convinced by that.
Laura
Everybody in this show who’s still around has had someone close to them die. If you’re still around at this point, you’re a survivor. Both Dany and Jon have had a true love die, if you consider those to be Drogo and Ygritte.
Dany was very careful about her emotions when she told Daario to stay behind. So she’s also done what Jon’s doing to her now. I think that Jon sees the beginning of a spark there, but he’s not thinking of it in practical terms, such as the possibility that they could rule together. I think Dany’s thinking something like that when she sees him. “This is a partner I could have in ruling Westeros, as well as someone who I think is kind of cool.” Meanwhile he acts like, “I think she’s hot, so I should just ignore it.”
Cheryl
That segues into what Arya says to Sansa. “You’re thinking this, right?” Sansa’s like, “No, no, no, I’m not thinking of it!” But she was thinking it, of course.
When Jon and Dany stand on that escarpment, and she’s looking back toward her dragons, he’s staring at her — and then he physically shakes himself out of it.
The other time there’s a gaze between them is in the war room meeting, when he says he will lead the party beyond the Wall himself, and he throws a look back at her as if to say, “Yeah, I’m going.” She responds physically, but he gives her a very short and emotionless stare: “I’m not going to give you googly eyes! This is a business decision. Don’t look at me that way!” He just doesn’t have time for it.
That to me in a way is very similar to what’s going on between Arya and Sansa. Like Jon, Arya perceives what’s going on in Sansa’s head. Sansa of course wants more from her position of power, but she can’t say it.
Roz
Let’s talk about that scene. It’s interesting that you made that comparison. The exchange between Arya and Sansa was my favorite part of the episode but also the most excruciating to watch, because I’m invested in both of their characters. Their difficult relationship was well-established early on, so it’s fascinating to see that same dynamic come back in this grown-up way, with these high stakes. They’re not talking about a pretty dress in the throne room at King’s Landing, or hairstyles.
Laura
It’s not, “Do I have to take needlepoint lessons or can I take sword-fighting lessons?” It’s more “Who’s going to betray whom” at this point.
Cheryl
They’re not bonding or sharing memories. There’s no emotional bonding. It’s pure business and politics.
Roz
Arya’s a total asshole in this scene. We have spent so long rooting for her, one way or another. And it’s really cool to see her come into her power and ability at this point, especially after sticking through so many long episodes in Braavos.
But life is so much simpler for her! She doesn’t have to worry about making people get along. She doesn’t have to worry about building alliances. She can act on her own and do whatever she wants on her own.
I think she’s being very unfair to Sansa. For example, it’s ironic that Jon is the one who insisted that Sansa take the Lord of Winterfell’s chambers. Yet Arya just assumes that Sansa wants it for herself, because Arya still has an old idea of what the childish Sansa cares about in life.
Cheryl, it’s interesting that the discussion of power is what made you think of this scene between the sisters. We just had Dany say that a position of power is how we help people. I think it’s okay that Sansa wants more power, as long as she’s not acting to betray Jon, and she’s really not.
Cheryl
I totally agree that a) Arya was an asshole, and b) Sansa did nothing wrong. How old was Arya when she started this journey? Nine? Ten? Her formative years have been under grueling circumstances, and her maturity has been stunted. As of now, she’s unable to make connections and to have empathy, to see something from somebody else’s point of view.
Laura
Sansa has displayed traits of being very vengeful in the past, but she actually is tamping it down a bit, both to be consistent with what Jon wants and also just to keep the peace, keep everybody together. She’s being strategic, and she’s seen a lot more court life; Arya has none of this experience, so she’s just thinking about justice. Sansa is thinking about how to keep everyone from rebelling, which is what Jon was afraid of, going south in the first place and now north to the wall.
Roz
There are real-world consequences that Sansa is aware of and Arya dismisses. Arya might not be wrong when she says “You care about their opinions,” which is the cruelest interpretation, and it’s quite possible that Sansa does indeed care. But Sansa’s actual response is that “Glover has 500 men, the Vale has 2,000”; it’s very much in the collecting-grain, taking-stock-of-the-armory mindset.
What is Jon doing in the South? He’s trying to build alliances. What is he doing in the North? He’s trying to build alliances. Sansa is actually the one holding to his idea of leadership in this episode. But Arya thinks she’s defending Winterfell in Jon’s name, in her favorite brother’s name.
Cheryl
Arya’s been traveling alone with her weapon, just like the Hound, and now she doesn’t know how to integrate and that’s going to be a challenge. It was great to see that reunion last week, but now we see it’s not going to be easy. Bran has become weird and emotionally dead inside, and Arya’s got some of the same issues. Yes, they’re alive, but not 100 percent there. It’s going to take a while.
So did you have any idea what was on that little scroll that was tucked away in Littlefinger’s bed?
Roz
The producers implied that Littlefinger planted it because he knew Arya was listening and watching.
Laura
I interpreted it that way too. Maybe it doesn’t really matter what’s on the note; what matters is that Littlefinger has made Arya think her sister is hiding something.
Cheryl
So then we’re thrown to the beach at King’s Landing, where Tyrion and Davos show up. Bronn brings Jaime to Tyrion, and they reconnect in what I thought was a badly handled scene. It was so dark and murky, and it didn’t have the emotional weight that I wanted it to have.
Roz
I was really captivated by it. Jaime and Tyrion always had this unlikely bond as brothers, tested through some unusually trying times. I think those actors have really sold it all the way through the series. So I did find it to be an emotional reconnection and reckoning.
Laura
It was sort of like black comedy. Tyrion’s pouring his heart out, and Jaime cuts him off. I was so offended on Tyrion’s behalf. Jaime stops Tyrion’s outpouring of emotion. There’s still a connection; he didn’t immediately want to kill Tyrion. Clearly, whatever relationship they had when they last saw each other, it’s not the same any more.
Cheryl
Something has changed. I feel like Jaime’s lost now. He’s gone all the way over to Team Cersei. He’s not even questioning her. After that scene in which she says she’s pregnant and pats her stomach, I thought: she is setting him up. With the pregnancy, she’s giving him what he wants, and he responds like a cat following a laser toy. He is not even thinking. He’s just blindly following her.
Laura
This is why I think her plotting with Qyburn has something to do with the pregnancy or with Jaime. There’s a weird long game those two are playing.
I don’t really understand why Cersei is so quick to agree to make peace with Dany — and just beat her later.
Roz
We’ve talked about how Jaime has unrealized paternal instincts. What I was really drawn in by was how for just one moment Cersei looked happy. I haven’t seen her look happy since she thought Myrcella was coming home, in that moment before she knew her daughter was dead. Then as it always is with her, she immediately poisons it one beat afterward by threatening him, saying “don’t betray me again” as they’re embracing. I feel like he’s always drawn in and then dealt poison that he just drinks up.
Cheryl
You’re so right, he just drinks it up. What was the “betrayal”? That he went to meet Tyrion? He told her afterward. I don’t get the big deal there.
Roz
I think she would have preferred that Jaime take his sword and swipe off Tyrion’s head on sight.
Maybe that is why Bronn conveniently made sure that Jaime was not carrying any sharp objects, only a practice sword.
Laura
Apparently the way we’re going to get Cersei to take part in the fight against the dead is to show her evidence. Because Cersei works as an evidence-based and logical player in this game? I don’t understand.
And we’re going to try to capture a wight, which is a really bad idea. Bring this live wight all the way south to King’s Landing! And then we’re going to have Qyburn near a wight, and that’s real bad.
Roz
She already has a resurrected dead zombie giant dude who does her every bidding, so why’s she going to be so impressed?
Laura
It doesn’t seem like this is actually a plan that has to go anywhere. It was an excuse to get those seven people together to go north of the wall.
If I recall, there’s a distinction: we have the Night’s King–type of White Walkers, with the blue eyes, who are super-undead, and then we just have the zombies.
Roz
There’s the Others and then there’s the wights. The early episodes were just filled with wights. And now you can’t get a good wight when you need one.
I think we all agree this was a very goofy and not very clear motivation/explanation of why this is the great big plan all of a sudden.
All these random characters showing up in one episode is a lot to handle.
Laura
Let’s talk about the posse up north. It seems like a Western to me. Someone described it as sort of a heist, like “Ocean’s Eleven.”
Roz
I would have been more willing to go along with that if they had saved it to open the next episode. Rather than reintroducing Jorah, who has always been on Team Dany and all of a sudden putting him on Team Jon. And Gendry! That’s an example of fan service there, Laura. There’s no reason for this character to come back, and that line about “Thought you were still rowing!” was definitely ripped from the message boards and comments.
Roz
I think the Gendry actor did great in actually making something of his scenes: when you see these two kids raised as bastards by fathers who were best friends, he seems really excited to meet a Stark for the first time. It’s kind of cute, it’s just not necessary.
Laura
I’m really waiting for Jon and Arya to meet, of all the reunions, because I think that’s going to start pulling some of their character flaws into relief, in a good way. But they skipped right over that, and so did Gendry. No time for Winterfell! Apparently moving at a breakneck pace up the coast to get to the Wall!
Roz
That was the one justification of traveling by ship, that they could go directly to Eastwatch. Since he got this raven about Bran’s vision, he knew that’s where they needed to go, and they could get there directly by ship rather than an overland journey. Of course, why didn’t anybody send a raven to Jon before, telling him his brother and sister were still alive?
Cheryl
Thinking about that posse, I thought about “Seven Samurai” or the “Magnificent Seven” — basically, seven disparate warriors who come from different places to protect a village of peasants. It’s a group of people who’ve never worked together before who have to perform a task.
Laura
We didn’t talk about Sam!
The maesters are yet another holdover of “old Westeros” — one of the last ones, right? Operating the same way they always have. Everything else has fallen apart — the lines of succession are gone; Cersei is ruling, though she has no legitimate claim to the throne; and it’s war all the time now — but the maesters are still toiling away at Oldtown, to make sure everything’s really true. History moves slowly, anyway. Sam’s trying to impress upon them that what’s coming is not something they’ll have time to mull over. This is action time. But they’re not men of action. They’re men of careful consideration.
Cheryl
They’re concerned about the ravenry. That’s their order of business while the world crumbles outside of their little citadel. I felt that too, Laura, that these are not men of action, and Sam was turning into a man of action. He couldn’t take it any more.
Roz
Did you catch what he says when he leaves, which echoes the cruel thing his father said: “If you become a maester, you’ll just be reading about the accomplishments of better men.” Sam says he’s tired of doing that.
He’s also kind of pulling what Arya did and leaving half-trained, which makes him a weird hybrid thing, a half-maester. He’s still smart. He still reads the book and follows the instructions.
Laura
He’s also really, really breaking the rules, and Sam’s not much of a rule-breaker either. He’s stealing scrolls. That’s a big deal. I have a feeling if the maesters knew he was stealing scrolls, they’d go after them to get them back.
Roz
Maybe Sam will also have to make a choice between his heritage and title, versus renouncing it for the sake of some other duty or calling. Or vice versa, giving up his dream to go take on his familial duty.
But: where is he going?
Laura
Even if he is the last remaining Tarly, he has taken the black. He was going to become maester at the Wall. Unless he pulls some kind of Jon trick, he literally has forsaken all that. Not that it matters, because laws are being broken all the time in this world now.
Cheryl
And he’s bopping Gilly. So that vow is broken already.
Laura
And, annulment!
We have a maester who kept very anal track of the numbers of windows and stairs and bowel movements, and so no one reads his book. (Which is a throwback to the archmaester telling Sam, “You have to put a little interest in your books or no one will read them.”) Well, this is why. “By the way, side note: annulled a marriage and remarried a prince. Anyway, back to my counting of windows.” Which is just bizarre. Let’s assume that’s why the history got lost. Of course it means that Jon is the true-born son and the true-born heir.
I feel like at this point in the show, it doesn’t matter. There’s so much focus on blood and what blood means. Maybe this revelation is important not so much because he’s not a bastard, but more because his two parents were in love and it wasn’t a rape, which is a relief at this point, that there’s one less rape.
Roz
It could matter for the dynamic between him and Daenerys.
Cheryl
It also reflects back to when Gendry and Jon met and talked about their fathers fighting together. We’re reminded that Ned is not really Jon’s father, but Jon’s identity is based on Ned as his father.
It comes back to our last conversation: What’s your identity? What is Dany’s identity if she doesn’t have a natural claim to the throne or if it’s not as clear and easy-breezy as she thought it was? Who are you? It’s like Jaime without his hand: who is she without the notion of her right to rule as the true-born queen? For Jon, who is his father? He knows nothing about his father. The way he identifies himself is as Ned’s son, yet that has nothing to do with who really he is, except for his learned values. What’s in a name, what’s in a title, who are you? And how your actions reflect who you are much more meaningfully than your title.
It’s reflected in the two Tarlys who died. They died for a sense of honor, which in the end was a complete waste. It was a stupid reason to die.
Laura
They should have bent the knee. Bend the knee, and then plot, right? This is why we think of Littlefinger et al. as actually being better players in the game than the Tarlys.
At the same time, we knew Daenerys made the wrong decision by giving them this “choice.” She knew: these particular men, given the choice of bend the knee or die — they’ll die. It also reminded me of the way she roasted all the grain and all the food. It’s a waste. At this point, you can’t afford to do that. WINTER IS COMING.
Roz
“Give in or die” is also not a choice. She says several times, “I gave them a choice!
Cheryl
As I watched Tyrion wander through the waste among the horse carcasses buried in the ash, I thought of the Battle of the Bastards, when all those horses died. Last week, as Jaime and Bronn leaped into the water, their horses were incinerated. It’s something very specific in this battle and the Battle of the Bastards. Horses and grain. I think that’s going to come back to bite them.
Roz
The Dothraki have been established as having superior horsemanship. Maybe they’re not quite as much of a force to contend with without their horses.
Last note: I believe this is the first time we’ve seen Eastwatch in the opening credits. So we got a new place! But I’m just not buying into Eastwatch and the beyond-the-wall ranging as the big new mission and point of drama, and I wish I felt more the urgency and importance of it. Because I did like a lot of the acting and character interactions in this episode, but I can’t get invested in their goal now.
Cheryl
Me neither.
Laura
The Hound has some kind of role to play. Do Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr actually have a role other than getting the Hound up to the Wall? Now they’ve gone beyond the Wall along with the ranging party!
Roz
Last season we had so much heavy stuff about faith and gods. That’s been completely absent this season other than references once or twice to the Lord of Light. And in this case, the Hound actually was like, “Shut the fuck up about the Lord of Light!” when the subject came up. Let’s get down to business.
That is the reason Beric is still alive; he was resurrected. That is the reason that all of a sudden Thoros — who was always a Red Priest, but a drunk dropout Red Priest — now has these powers. It all comes down to this faith. Presumably we’re going to get back into visions and prophecy and divine power, but we just haven’t been set up for that as much this season.
Laura
Littlefinger’s having his own side conversations now, and no one thinks it’s weird, because there’s no bureaucracy in Winterfell set up to handle it otherwise, like the Small Council.
Squawks
Laura:
Fermented crab! The Viagra of Westeros. Davos is a crafty fella, let’s not forget.
Roz:
Duly noting: the maesters at Oldtown make a quick reference to “Jenny of Oldstones, who thought she was descended from the Children of the Forest,” and everyone laughs. So that’s a small shout out to lore from the book.
Cheryl:
Does anyone else suspect that Cersei’s pregnancy is a setup? That she knew exactly what strings to pull to keep Jaime in line? That the morning after she initiated sex with him, she made sure her handmaiden saw him in her bed and told her to change the sheets? That it could be that either she is not pregnant or someone else is the father? Last season, after Tommen dies she seemed completely indifferent and emotionally dead inside …
Please join the conversation in comments! But no spoilers, please.